Critical Thoughts

topic posted Fri, February 27, 2009 - 1:05 PM by  harold
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posted by:
harold
Los Angeles
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  • Re: Critical Thoughts

    Fri, February 27, 2009 - 1:17 PM
    Huh oh!
    Last time I saw that web site, I walked away thinking if AA doesn't work for you, then let it be.
    Or as we say in the rooms, Live and Let Live.
    • Re: Critical Thoughts

      Fri, February 27, 2009 - 1:44 PM
      I am happy, joyous and free because I discoverd that we are not powerless over our addictions. Self will is the answer. let me repeat that.
      Self will is the answer. If one really buys into the powerless trap, if you actually believe you are powerless it becomes a self full filling prophecy.

      AA is a religious organization. Don't take my word for it. Look it up. In 2007 a Federal Court decided that because AA was a religion that a person could not be required to attend meetings as a term of parole. Other courts including the U.S. Supreme Court have concured. For leagal purposes AA is a religion and AA is powerless to change that label.

      My reason for posting is to help anyone who is stuck, who has doubts, who thinks for themselves to have some validation that there are many paths to addiction recovery. AA did not work for me so I did not keep going back. I am in favor of live and let live. I am living because I accepted my own power and ability to stop drinking. It was difficult, but not nearly as difficult as it was when I believed I was powerless.

      I stopped drinking and decided that I will never drink again for the rest of my life. I am 100% certain of that fact. I quit one lifetime at a time not just one day at a time. I consider myself to be recovered. I refuse to call my self a recovering alcoholic because since I stopped I am by definition recovered. When asked I just tell people I am a tea toddler.

      I will repeat again. Self will is the answer. Never believe for one second that you are powerless. Self will is the answer.

      To anyone who would label me a "dry drunk" I reject that because it is an oxymoron. Once you quit and stay quit you have achieved recovery.
      • Re: Critical Thoughts

        Fri, February 27, 2009 - 1:49 PM
        thank you harold for sharing what works for you. i have been happily doing what aa suggests for over 23 years now and i'm quiet happy with the results. more power to you for doing what works for you.
  • Re: Critical Thoughts

    Fri, February 27, 2009 - 1:44 PM
    Haha!! I recognized the link and moved on.
    • Re: Critical Thoughts

      Fri, February 27, 2009 - 1:50 PM
      One alternative www.smartrecovery.org/
      • Re: Critical Thoughts

        Fri, February 27, 2009 - 2:36 PM
        thanks again harlod for sharing what works for you, and making available info for other options for dealing with addiction.
        aa doesn't claim to be the only answer, nor does it claim to fix all problems. aa is just one possible solution to the drink problem, and it just happens to be the one that works for me and many others. good luck to you on the path you've chosen for you.
        • Re: Critical Thoughts

          Tue, March 3, 2009 - 9:17 AM
          The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. I'm glad I joined. That desire just got a nine year chip!
          • Re: Critical Thoughts

            Tue, March 3, 2009 - 3:39 PM
            "only requirement.......is a desire to stop drinking." I agree and the only step necessary to achieve sobriety is that you stop drinking. Once you make the decison to not drink again for the rest of your life your drinking related problems tend to fade away. The reason I used to drink (and I think this is trure generally) was that I enjoyed the pleasure it gave me. Drinking is not the result of defects of character. Too much drinking causes character defects. One need not attend meetings for the rest of their life to claim sobriety.
            • Re: Critical Thoughts

              Tue, March 3, 2009 - 4:17 PM
              I'm going to the Synagogue tonight and help them learn that JC is the only way to the Father.
              Who wants to join me?
              • Re: Critical Thoughts

                Tue, March 3, 2009 - 4:29 PM
                That would be as silly as saying that Bill W. had the only way to stop addictions and that nothing has changed in over 70 years.
              • Re: Critical Thoughts

                Tue, March 3, 2009 - 4:59 PM
                Your post seems a tacit admission that AA is religious. That would be in line with some court decisions like the one in the following link that declared in fact AA is a religion. Read for yourself.

                www.articlesbase.com/law-artic...25414.html
                • Re: Critical Thoughts

                  Tue, March 3, 2009 - 6:05 PM
                  so harold, whats your point?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Critical Thoughts

                    Tue, March 3, 2009 - 6:16 PM
                    Actually, I was being sarcastic. You come in here, and offer another solution to people that have found one.
                    My offer was to parallel your tactic in hopes you could see how ridiculous you're being.

                    Have you ever been a member of AA.
                    Do you plan on ever being a member?

                    And yeah, what she said!
                    What's your point of coming into this tribe anyway?

                    • Re: Critical Thoughts

                      Tue, March 3, 2009 - 6:38 PM
                      I did try AA. It did not work so I did not keep going back. I suppose you could say that my being here is sort of an intervention. At least one person sent me a private message and expressed gratitude for finding out about alternatives to AA. Besides tribe many of us are posting on other addiction blogs and social networks. As a direct result of thes posts traffic is up at the Agent Orange site. I would guess that there is also some increase in traffic at SMART and Rational Recovery.
                      • Re: Critical Thoughts

                        Tue, March 3, 2009 - 8:34 PM
                        well i am absolutely not a christian and i have many friends who are both agnostic and atheist. nothing in our literature says you must have a god, just an hp of your choosing.

                        i'm happy to hear that people are finding recovery with other programs, as i said before aa doesn't claim to have the only way. we just have one way that works for those who choose it. we have had people from your group come here before and do nothing but instigate hatred. i hope that is not your purpose harold. we are not here to debate semantics nor what path is the right one. different things work for different people and i happy you found one that works for you.
                        • Re: Critical Thoughts

                          Wed, March 4, 2009 - 5:59 AM
                          My new band: The Splitting Hairs!
                          • Re: Critical Thoughts

                            Wed, March 4, 2009 - 10:20 AM
                            There is no hair too fine to be split, apparently.

                            Rat Recovery, "SMART" (Isn't that the one whose founder killed someone in a drunken driving accident?), all that stuff have there own places to preach from...

                            This one is for AA. You'll find a lot of people it has worked for, who have no intention of going elsewhere.

                            It is somewhat akin to standing on the porch of a mosque preaching about JC...Ain't gonna do much good.
                            • Re: Critical Thoughts

                              Wed, March 4, 2009 - 10:34 AM
                              The person you are refering to who killed two children while driving drunk was actually the leader of Moderation Management. MM advocated that alcoholics could continue to drink under a program of management. When she discovered that approach did not work she quit MM and joined AA. This tragic accident happend when she had a slip and was a member of AA. 12 step advocates need to acknowledge their own failures. BTW according to a study commissioned by AA during the 1980's only five to ten percent of people who joined AA were still sober after 1 year.
                              • Re: Critical Thoughts

                                Wed, March 4, 2009 - 10:47 AM
                                well, i've been sober for 23 years, so i beg to differ that a 20+ year old study has any relevance. and the bottom line is there are options out there for people who want help, this just happens to be an AA forum.
                              • Re: Critical Thoughts

                                Wed, March 4, 2009 - 10:57 AM
                                This is fun! Harold thinks its a swell idea to walk into someone else's house and announce that the owner is a deadbeat, his wife a whore and the curtains are shabby - all while claiming his house is *much* better.

                                Though really, every time he opens his mouth he paints his home as quite an ugly place by how he, as its representative, carries himself.

                                Careful with that ax eugene.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Critical Thoughts

                    Tue, March 3, 2009 - 6:30 PM
                    AA asks for "rigorous honesty" yet insists it is spiritual as opposed to religious. Up until these court decisions people could be forced to attend meetings. Since there are still people who attennd meetings for the sole purpose of having a court slip signed I hope that a least a few will read this and realize they can challenge whoever sent them there.

                    Besides the obvious and now legally stipulated fact that AA is a religion it now seems that rather than a more general serenity prayer most meetings now insist on the Lords Prayer which is without a doubt a Christian prayer. This makes the religious label of AA even more apparent. Since America is a secular country people cannot be forced to go to a Christian prayer meeting. And lets face it that when it comes right down to it AA parctices faith healing.

                    Lets get real and practice the rigorous honesty that AA preaches and admit they are a religion. You can still freely meet and practice your religion, but quit pretending you are not religious. These court rullings mean that fewer counselors, therapists and doctors will automically send clients to AA. My own doctor recommended SMART because he respects the fact that I am an agnostic and realizes one can be agnostic or atheist and achieve sobriety without any spiritual aspect.
                    • Re: Critical Thoughts

                      Wed, March 4, 2009 - 10:29 PM
                      Good for you man. The court rulings have gone unopposed as AA has no interest in any public controversy, neither does AA as a whole care whether you think it a religion, a cult, or anything else. It simply does not matter what you call it. For those of us it has worked for we need no further authentication. It's funny that so many have felt such a need to attack AA yet the program continues to help the otherwise hopeless. For most of us AA was THE LAST RESORT, and for those of us in that situation, it works quite well.

                      The link you posted is not just about sharing another option, it a direct attempt to smear AA as a whole. The top stories on the site refer to on group out of many thousands across the country, and the behavior of many of those members is far more of an offense to me than you. Call it what you want, I still enjoy watching the gift of lives rebuilt, and families restored, that I get to participate in on a daily basis. Oh and by the way, the Lords prayer came first, and the serenity prayer came later. BTW feel free to check out the tribe I moderate.

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