The AA big book, after telling us of the "vital spiritual experiance" solution proposed by Carl Jung to "our friend", says on page 28 "Here was the terrible dilemma in which our friend found himself when he had the extraordinary experience, which as we have already told you, made him a free man."
From this statement it is clear that the Big Book is telling us that Bill W was "our friend" who met Carl Jung. But that's not true. Rowland Hazard was "our friend" who'd met Carl Jung.
So my questions to you all are, "Why did Bill W lie to us here?" "Was Bill a compulsive lier and manipulator?" and "Are the rest of the things in the Big Book all lies & manipulations too?"
Maybe my logic or rational thinking is all goofed up. In which case, HELP me get my feet back on the ground.
Much Love,
Rajiv
From this statement it is clear that the Big Book is telling us that Bill W was "our friend" who met Carl Jung. But that's not true. Rowland Hazard was "our friend" who'd met Carl Jung.
So my questions to you all are, "Why did Bill W lie to us here?" "Was Bill a compulsive lier and manipulator?" and "Are the rest of the things in the Big Book all lies & manipulations too?"
Maybe my logic or rational thinking is all goofed up. In which case, HELP me get my feet back on the ground.
Much Love,
Rajiv
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India
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Re: Sunday Puzzle
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 7:22 AMActually it's always been clear it wasn't Bill that met Karl Jung. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I've read that passage a bunch of times and never once got the impression that it was Bill, even before I had a name to go with "our friend". Now later on, Bill did correspond with Dr. Jung, but that's another story. -
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Re: Sunday Puzzle -- Bill's big lie!
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 8:42 AM"Here was the terrible dilemma in which our friend found himself when he had the extraordinary experience, which as we have already told you, made him a free man."
Dog, In this statement they're telling us that this chap who met jung was the same one whose story they've told us before (in chapter 1 or 2) about having "the extraordinary experience, which as we have already told you, made him a free man." Since this experience is told only in Bill's story, it follows that they're trying to tell us that Bill was the one who met jung. QED
Now at least, hope you can see that. Already in the second chapter Bill's started manipulating to become the founder of the program that was actually founded by Rowland Hazard.
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Re: Sunday Puzzle -- Bill's big lie!
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 9:35 AM"From this statement it is clear that the Big Book is telling us that Bill W was "our friend" who met Carl Jung. But that's not true. Rowland Hazard was "our friend" who'd met Carl Jung.
So my questions to you all are, "Why did Bill W lie to us here?" "Was Bill a compulsive lier and manipulator?" and "Are the rest of the things in the Big Book all lies & manipulations too?"
Maybe my logic or rational thinking is all goofed up. In which case, HELP me get my feet back on the ground."
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Well your logic and rational thining may or may not be goofed up.
Really it sounds like you have too much free time on your hands. Maybe now you can put that time to good use and go volunteer somewhere or serve another suffering alkie. -
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Re: Sunday Puzzle -- Bill's big lie!
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 3:02 PMI used to spend alot of time in my head trying to find loopholes and outs and ah ha!s. Then I discovered my heart and body and soul and don't have to live there 100%. Interestingly enough, this coincided with my learning that all that stuff is noise to me, I don't care whom talked to whom. The beauty of aa is that the singular nature of the words 'our friend' is no longer applicable in my life. I have lots of friends.
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Re: Sunday Puzzle -- Bill's big lie!
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 1:04 PMBottom of page 26: "But this man still lives, and is a free man." As page 26 comes before page 28, Bill can rightly say "as we have already told you, made him a free man."
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Re: FF >>
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 7:51 PMI didn't money shot today, myself.
There's always tomorrow.
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Re: FF >>
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 9:23 AM"Why did Bill W lie to us here?" "Was Bill a compulsive lier and manipulator?"
The reason I drank was due to my rigorous honesty and live and let live behaviors and ideals. No, wait......that's a lie. As was stated above I think it's understood that Bill was not "our friend" as described in the BB. But I have to say that if he were a compulsive liar and manipulator, he used his power for good and not evil! -
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Re: FF >>
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:38 PMBill W. was a drunk, just like you and me...and I didn't drink again today...just for today, beh-beh! -
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Re: FF >>
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:01 PMI still swear a lot.....just not around my kid -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: FF >>
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:23 PM<<<<I still swear a lot.....just not around my kid>>>>
well yer doing better than me. i swear a lot. i figured out a long time ago that it wasn't gonna change, mainly cuz i'm really not motivated to do the work nesassary. so i told my kids that those are "adult" words and they don't get to say them. so far i'm 3 out of 3 on this one and it has worked. -
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Re: FF >>
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:26 PMThat wouldn't work in my house Shannon. My son likes to be colorful in his speech. He'd grasp on to the concept of adult words and run with it. I can hear it now...."aw mom....I told you I don't like fucking grilled cheese sandwiches!" -
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Re: FF >>
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:29 PMit prolly wouldn't work with mine either if i tried starting it now. i started this with each one as soon as they started talking. the first swear word that came out of each ones mouth that is what i told them. so thats what worked for me, it still kinda amazes me though.
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Re: FF >>
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 1:14 PMYou oughta come to my house. My kids swear like little sailors. We just told them that they can do that at home, but not out, and definitely not with Grandma. That seems to work pretty well. Besides it just cracks me up no end when Anika shoots me a disapproving sideways glance and says "Dad, stop fucking around!" or when my 4 year old son strolls down the hallway singing(wrongly, of course) KC and the Sunshine Band "Play that fucking music, white boy....play that fucking music now" -
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Re: FF >>
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 7:59 PMhee hee
play that fucking music til you die .... TIL YOU DIEEEE !!!!!! -
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FFF
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 5:51 AMFuck, that was posted on Sunday the 27th by me! Guess that solves the puzzle. What was so puzzling that day was that my lungs were caving in on me. By night I was literally choking & gasping for breath. But still wanted to have a ciggi. But thank goodness I didn't. I couldn't sleep the whole night. Next day I was put in the ICU, COPD Exacerbation, either bronchial asthma or emphysema. So I stopped smoking. :)
It was nice going through that experience---the choking, gasping for breath, afraid I'll die any moment. Now I can at least empathize with the asthma patients. I can now understand what my dad must have been going through when he got his asthma attacks. Also I realized that I need to strengthen my meditation as I was still afraid of dieing. Of course I was most scared then, of dieing before completing my book.
Anyway I'm happy to have gone through it all, my hand's still in plaster 'though. And I even found an amino acid cure for asthma, N-acetyl cysteine, NAC. & I found God* last week & have been using him for the past few days. Too soon to know if God really works. But I'm hopeful.
It's nice to be back in this Free Fucking Fellowship.
* bio-tuner
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Re: FFF
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 2:19 PMCrazy shit, Raj. Glad you're still alive. How's life without smokes? -
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Re: FFF
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 11:26 PMGreat I guess. Friends say my face's glowing, but i just can't seem to be able to concentrate when I start writing the book. That's frustrating but this time I know I can't afford to smoke. They say the bio-tuner takes 2 to 3 weeks to cure nicotine addiction. Here's a gr8 lecture on this CES stuff: altered-states.net/barry/ne...index.htm
Patiently waiting,
rajiv -
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Re: FFF
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 1:24 PMDude NOT SMOKING for two to three weeks cures Nicotine addiction. The rest is just mental obsession. -
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Re: FFF
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 2:21 AMUm, yeah, that's pretty much the case. Took me about a week or two to get over the major heebeejeebee's of withdrawal, then it was just a case of what was in my head.
As far as the rosy glow, it could be the sheer frustration of not being able to smoke, hehehe.
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Re: FF >>
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 9:49 PMOver thinking Raj. There is no attempt to lead us to believe that Bill was the one who met with Jung. Bill in his story never refers to himself as "Our friend" but just in the first person. So yeah I'm gonna go with your thinking being screwed up here. That's not intended to be flip, but serious. You sometimes get so involved in your attempts to uncover the evil plot that is AA, that you miss the central point. AA works when used as directed. -
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Re: FF >>
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:58 AMYou cant be flippant, Jeff. I have that job - trusted servant that I am.
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