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If I had to guess I'd say that AA's recovery rate has dropped in the last 20 years from a mix of overexposure and dilution. Rehabs mushroomed during the 80's, sending forth legions of new people with inner children, pop psychology and that whole selfish program thing, some of which directly contradicts the tenants of AA. Then in the 90's things went completely surreal when AA became 'cool' in Hollywood. People started attending meetings strictly for social networking purposes, followed closely by a widespread torching of the principle of anonymity. Then the court system jumped in and started sentencing people to AA meetings.
The book reminds me that we know only a little and that God will reveal more to us. I think that's certainly true to a degree. Hell the word sponsor isnt even used in the first 164. Any number of bits of AA folk wisdom could be argued for as well. The majority of expansions however probably left H&I and CPC as a couple of fingers in the fairly bursting dike of AA promotion from the outside in. Its small wonder the rate has dropped.
The book reminds me that we know only a little and that God will reveal more to us. I think that's certainly true to a degree. Hell the word sponsor isnt even used in the first 164. Any number of bits of AA folk wisdom could be argued for as well. The majority of expansions however probably left H&I and CPC as a couple of fingers in the fairly bursting dike of AA promotion from the outside in. Its small wonder the rate has dropped.
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South Bay
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Unsu...
Re: AAs Success rate?
Sat, March 28, 2009 - 8:18 PMA friend of mine used to say "any small per cent chance was fine by me, because I was 100% hopeless when I got to AA."
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Sun, March 29, 2009 - 4:02 AMExactly. Remember in the beginning it was only hopeless, end-of-the-line alkies that attended meetings. The first 100 were looking at death as the only other option. Now there's a huge population of people in meetings who aren't really done with the steps before the steps. Desperation is a huge motivator. Couple that with a half assed message as is so often delivered, and I'm surprised as many people "get it" that do.
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Sun, March 29, 2009 - 1:12 PMI wasn't there in the infant stages of AA, but I suspect this subject has been around since then. -
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Sun, March 29, 2009 - 1:32 PMIt wasn't just a topic, it was almost part of the "admission rules". They were scared to death anybody less than a totally hopeless, teetering on the brink of death alky (with no other issues, mind you) would somehow ruin AA and send them all to an early grave. I can't imagine what it must have been like for them clinging on to what seemed at the time such a frail life raft. Thank God we know now that AA can and will survive just about anything. -
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 7:43 AMAs mentioned before, the dilution of the program has been a subject of discussion around AA for a long-assed time.
Before it was co-opted by every self-help guru, the message was pretty clear while kept in a traditional AA setting. The court-ordered members haven't helped ratios I'm sure - If I had been ordered, I wouldn't be here most likely.
Ratios, success rate, etc ad nauseam is rife with speculation and "experts". No one can really get a perfect handle on it. Anonymnity wreaks havoc on percentage and number crunching.
I mark it as a true sign of an old timer when they start bitching about AA and how it used to be. -
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Unsu...
Re: AAs Success rate?
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 8:00 AM"I mark it as a true sign of an old timer when they start bitching about AA and how it used to be."
I thought that was a sign of a newcomer.
Sign of an oldtimer to me is when they listen to all the bitching and pontificating and just shake their head and smile. A well meaning "keep coming back kid", although not necessary, is always a nice touch.
I guess my only true measuring stick of AA's success is how it is working in my life. It is a testiment to the foundation I was given that it still works even when I am not working it.
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 9:26 AMDoes the success rate really matter? If you are still clean and sober, then the success rate is 100%. -
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 12:34 PMHello. I go with everthing laura wrote 100%
Take care d
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Re: AAs Success rate?
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 12:40 PMhello, I agree with everything that Laura wrote100%
take care d -
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Re: :: grin ::
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 1:51 PMA study done by AA in the 1980's showed that after a year 5 to 10 percent of people were still sober. That is about the same rate for people who quit drinking on their own. What that study may not have done was to take into account the number of people who attended AA for a few months and stopped going to meetings, but remained sober.
IMHO the only step necessary to achieve sobriety is to not drink. People who stop drinking and remain dry are have as much right to claim sobriety as one who attends daily meetings and works the steps. Sobriety can be achieved in several ways including AA, S.M.A.R.T., Rational Recovery, Secular Orgainzations for Sobriety or just plain will power. Success in achieving sobriety consists of abstaining from the substances that you were addicted to. Once you stop using or drinkng the problems related to addictions become eaiser to solve. Drinking causes sick behavior. Sick behavior does not cause drinking. People drink because they get a plesant buzz and temporary euphoria. The desire for pleasure is not a sickness in and of itself. I pray I never lose the desire for pleasure. Learning to regain the self will necessary to avoid drinking is the key to sobriety. -
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Re: :: grin ::
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 2:17 PMif you don't take the first drink, you can't get drunk. -
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Unsu...
Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 10:28 AMNext up: AA. Is it really a selfish program?
But first, a word from our sponsors....... -
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Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 10:49 AMdont get too hungry, crabby, abalonely or tired? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 1:10 PMOh, look...Humor :P~
(Just had to) -
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Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 5:56 PMSorry GB,
But if you may recall, I left in a cloud of pissiness once after you made the same comment in jest.
I misunderstood it, and decided to throw it back kinda at myself.
I got over some of my stupidity, but not all.
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Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 6:09 PM
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Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 6:18 PMOh dont worry, I was just quoting the joker. ;^) -
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Unsu...
Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 7:34 PM"I left in a cloud of pissiness"
We have since hung up signs "NO WAKE", and "SLIPPERY WHEN WET"
It's just assumed that one knows to stand upwind.
I thought that smackdown was for me. Quit stealing the glory Fulke
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Re: :: grin ::
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 8:46 PMI don't remember, can you provide a link?
:P -
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Re: :: grin ::
Wed, April 1, 2009 - 8:35 AMDerailing...It's not just a job, it's pointless :) -
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Unsu...
Re: :: grin ::
Wed, April 1, 2009 - 9:53 AMAs long as we're being pointless.....
A gentleman asked a waiter to take a bottle of Merlot to an unusually attractive woman sitting alone at a table in a cozy little restaurant. So the waiter took the Merlot to the woman and said, 'This is from the gentleman who is seated over there and indicated the sender with a nod of his head.
She stared at the wine coolly for a few seconds, not looking at the man and then decided to send a reply to him by a note. The waiter, who was lingering nearby for a response, took the note from her and conveyed it to the gentleman.
The note read:
'For me to accept this bottle, you need to have a Mercedes in your garage, a million dollars in the bank and 7 inches in your pants.'
After reading the note, the man decided to compose one of his own in return.
He folded the note, handed it to the waiter and instructed him to deliver it to the lady.
It read:
'Just so you know things aren't always what they appear to be, I have a Ferrari Mirabella, BMW Z8, Mercedes CL600, and a Porsche Turbo in my several garages; I have beautiful homes in Aspen , Miami and a 10,000 acre ranch in Louisiana . There is over twenty million dollars in my bank account and portfolio. But, not even for a woman as beautiful as you are, would I cut off three inches.......... Just send the bottle back.'
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Re: :: grin ::
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 3:23 AMOn the subject of success rates, briefly. I just dug an old photo of one of my current homegroup's first events. It was taken around 14 years ago (in the 90s) of the 20 pictured, 15 are still consecutively sober, and two have been out and back (one with almost nine years now the other coming up on a year. So if we only count the 15 with over 10 years we get 75%, and adding the other two we get up to 85%. I know for sure of one other not pictured who is also still sober. This came off as totally anecdotal until I looked at the picture of my first retreat with an entirely different group, in another state, and the numbers are similar. This tells me that "Success" has much more to do with getting involved and working the program than just having attended a meeting or two. I always say that until someone has worked all 12 steps as written in the book they have not tried the program of AA. I think our failure rate among that group is listed as "Rarely have we seen a person fail..."
There. Rerailed : ) -
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Re: :: grin ::
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 8:17 AMJeff i have long thought the same thing, having looked around me at the dozens of characters around me who I developed a fellowship around back in the 80's. The majority of us are still here, still active, and still happy. The common denominators seemed to have been big time fellowshipping, a serious passion for the steps and giving this thing back. Without exception.
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